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JozenBo
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#1 kirjoitettu
02.08.2008 17:24
This thread inquires about numbers, perhaps the magic of numbers, or the meaning of them, and how these play a role in music, which has counts and measures, and involves timing, which involves numbers (a little circular thinking here...).
I read somewhere that 13+3 is not the same as 16, even though it equals it. The author said that #this+#that refers to a separation joining, where as simply #this refers to a complete self contained unbroken unity. It was an interesting read, I am probably not breaking down as well as he did.
In music, I like to listen to the counts of various instrument sounds overlapping, and often wonder how the numbers add up (trying to visualize sometimes-not always). I read somewhere that the composer Bach considered different counts to have different meanings relating to the Universe and Life, a solid sustained single beat of One, having something to do with Creation. After this my mind has wondered if it could be true.
I also read about the constellations, and the planets, and how these make different notes as they move. If this is true, and if these sound waves carry through space and mix with each other at different intervals, how much music does the Universe itself make? If it's a grand orchestration of sound, what is God listening to?
Sure, the language of music is for the most part straight forward and honest, you can quickly feel whats there. It can be something with very little feeling, such as one long unchanging buzz. It might have a little feeling, but compared to some of the rich mixtures that arouse stronger feelings, it is rather trite.
To make music one needs to get into a feeling- could say even get a feeling for it (involving a state of mind), otherwise the feeling won't deliver as it could. If the state of mind reaches some given point, it seems that knowledge of how these numbers add up become automatic, and the expression of what feelings are communicated come out clearly. This makes wonderful music!
Any thoughts?
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JozenBo
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#2 kirjoitettu
03.08.2008 16:56
Sunt1o kirjoitti:
In a way it involves numbers... but i think that's just the way we've chosen to translate it to ourselves. There are no numbers there as such, they're just the names of different quantities. I think. Again, difficult to explain. Also might not really be significant.
That is the aspect I am looking at, the quantities as they are relative to each other, how the waves form within the measures. Given a count of 4/3 we are basically able to fit different proportions of a given sound at a given note within. Numbers are a way to conceptualize quantities (in particular, relative quantities), though given is it possible that one solid whole note within a measure feels different, therefor communicating different emotion then say, two broken beats?
Sunt1o kirjoitti:
Well, if you ask 'how much sound does the Universe itself make' i guess the answer is 'all of it'. Even tho, i don't really think sound necessarily carries through space too well, 'cause of the lack of air. As for 'how much music...' that kinda depends of the definition of music you're using (there doesn't seem to be any universal definition). That is a thing that's occasionally discussed in this forum. Some (like me for example) think that music needs to be intentionally made. Some don't, and mostly those people consider all sound to be music (at least this is how it seems to me).
The music God listens to I think depends on two things. If he/she really is everywhere I think it would be fair to say God listens to all music. If this is not the case, I'd take guess that it's up to God's ethnic background... you know  Hindu God would likely to be listening indian music and so on
In space, given an empty vacuum, light waves themselves generate quantom sounds within themselves as they spread and disperse. A shining star emitting billions of light waves per a second is releasing quantom sound within its waves (these can be received and transmitted into a radio, given the right settings, radio waves are no different then gamma rays, in the sense that both are electromagnetic waves at different ends of the spectrum), as its a consequence of any given force that changes. I simply see waves, if there are waves, then they sound.
If music is intentional communication of emotions, then perhaps the constellations are having emotions...which can be heard on massive scales? I'd agree, that the Universe is releasing waves that mix up into every pattern one can think of, from the macro scale to the micro scale. In chaos the only order to be found is scalar order, the almost-exact-same-pattern reappears within itself if ANY given part is magnified enough.
If before time we had an undefined chaos, this chaos itself would then provide the entire set of all patterns within any given point, though there would be no point to give. So, if we aren't just considering music, but all patterns of sound (including language patterns), then at some point within any point is every point.
Then supposing we could figure out how to access the patterns within any bit, it would be possible to extract every sound there is, and if we heard that then would we hear what God hears? Would that mean we are then God? Off course, since it is either impossible or we simply don't know how to pull it off, this is a rather abstract thought...
When considering Gods (one of those topics I find so interesting...) and God, I tend to look at it from the Plural and Singular view that the plural multitude of Gods and Goddesses are like branches of a tree, and the Trunk being something with less form definition, less any definition, more and more spread out until reaching the core it is omnipresent, hearing everything and nothing. The plural multitude then hears fractions of what could be called the grand spectrum of all waves.
So then the Indian God or Goddess might hear Indian music, though in its most sublime and perfectly selected form (I doubt such a being would listen to just any sound), having the prime selection within that given mind set. Though they could probably tune into other pantheons of sound (why not?).
Sunt1o kirjoitti:
I guess you could suggest it being a subconscious mathematical process. I don't know about that, could well be. I think of music as a kind of language that's really good in communicating emotions and not so good in communicating certain specific statements (such as 'the cat is red'). I just see music as mostly communication thing.
I agree, we communicate emotions with music. Also, the tones of a speaker or a singer also communicate emotions, though not all emotions can be communicated using the same sounds. For some reason this makes me think of birds...singing in a forest, communicating to each other, immersed in each other's presence.
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Ladataan
